“We Don’t Want to Be Segregated as a Society”
President Bush was interviewed on Monday by Juan Williams of Fox News. Here is a transcript:
JUAN WILLIAMS: Mr. President, thank you for joining us this morning.
It’s 50 years ago that events at Little Rock Central High School took palace as nine black children tried to enter that high school and federal troops had to be sent to protect them.
Where do you think we are today in America in the fight for racial justice for all?
PRESIDENT BUSH: You know, we’ve obviously progressed, because it is accepted that black children and white children are going to go to school together.
You know, I’ve thought about that. I went to the high school when I — since I’ve been president, and it struck me that an American president had to commit the 101st Airborne to get these kids into school. And it was a very ugly chapter in America. And we’ve progressed beyond that.
I think part of it has to do with social awareness. Part of it has to do with baby boomers coming of age. You know, a lot of people that are my age — which happens to be 61 — you know, grew up rejecting this notion of a segregated society.
And I grew up in a town, Juan, where there was a white high school and a black high school. That’s Midland, Texas. And of course that no longer exists.
So the structural changes happened.
I think hearts are changing as well in America. But there’s still prejudice. And, you know, the role of the government is open opportunities— open up opportunities for people and give people a chance to succeed.
And, I mean, No Child Left Behind, for example, is a classic case of challenging this notion that, you know, certain kids can’t learn so let’s measure to determine if they are learning and then correct problems early, before it’s too late, all aiming to give everybody access to the dream.
WILLIAMS: Now, today, the celebration 50 years later also acknowledges the fact that a Republican predecessor of yours, President Eisenhower, decided to take that strong move of supporting racial integration.
Why aren’t you going to Little Rock today?
BUSH: You know, I’m at —at the United Nations representing the country, talking about the great heart of America and — when it comes to dealing with issues like HIV/AIDS or malaria. It’s my — look, I hope people understand that I have competing obligations.
Certainly, my heart is in the right place.
Secondly, I did go to Topeka, Kansas, to celebrate the Brown decision.
WILLIAMS: Last week, there was a large march in Jena, Louisiana . . .
BUSH: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: You may have heard about it — protesting the treatment of six black young people involved in a school fight. Fights broke out after a noose was hung from a tree.
Are events there a reflection of worsening race relations in the country in your mind?
BUSH: You know, I was saddened by the events. I would hope that the hearts of children would grow beyond this notion about, you know, insulting somebody through hanging a noose, which I — inherently bigoted response.
You know, and I’m not surprised at people’s reaction, of the African-American community reacting the way they did, because this notion of unequal justice hearkens back to a previous time in our history that a lot of folks, including me, are working to get beyond.
And so, I wasn’t surprised, Juan, of seeing the people on the streets. I was pleased that the march was peaceful.
And, you know, beyond that, it’s hard for me to comment, because I don’t want to get involved in the ongoing trial.
But I do want to assure people that our Justice Department and appropriate branches in the Justice Department are monitoring the situation to make sure lives are safe as well as to make sure that justice is fair.
WILLIAMS: Well, should the government get involved? Should you play a more active role there? Should the Congress — should the Judiciary Committee in the House and the Senate get involved?
BUSH: Well, I think this is — no, the charges were brought by a local prosecutor, and what the Justice Department ought to be doing is monitoring the civil rights violations, to the extent that there are some.
And —hopefully this can be resolved in a fair —in a way that says justice is equitable, that people will be treated fairly.
WILLIAMS: Bill Clinton used to say — President Clinton— that he had a Cabinet that looked like America. But, in fact, you’ve had a more diverse Cabinet, President Bush . . .
(LAUGHTER)
. . . Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Elaine [Chao], Alberto Gonzales, Alphonso Jackson, Mel Martinez, Carlos Gutierrez, Norman Mineta.
Were they the best people for the job, or did you select them to send a signal about the necessity of racial diversity?
BUSH: You know, I’ve always tried to be an inclusive person without sacrificing excellence. And with these individuals you’ve named, I’ve been able to achieve sending a message that we’re a diverse nation and that — and at the same time I found people who can do the job.
I couldn’t imagine Condi Rice not being the secretary of state. She is a — she’s been a key adviser inside the White House and she’s doing a fabulous job as secretary of state.
And so, it’s a combination of being interested in sending a message that America is a diverse country and people — you know, if you look hard enough, you can find people that are capable of doing the job in a fine way. And so, I’ve looked hard and asked them to serve and I’m proud of their service.
WILLIAMS: You’ve appointed two people to the Supreme Court, both white males. Do you think that there should be greater representation, not only of blacks and Hispanic, but women, on that high court?
BUSH: I do. Absolutely.
And, as you might remember, put forth a woman who I thought would be a great Supreme Court judge. And she never really got out of the blocks. And it looked like it was going to be — would be impossible for her to get out of the committee. And so she gracefully withdrew her name.
But I do believe so. And I hope I have another pick. And, you know, I obviously would seek excellence and diversity.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, in black America, we have skyrocketing rates of black-on-black murder, disproportionate incarceration rates, 50 percent dropout rates in high schools across the country, 25 percent poverty rate.
Sitting here in the White House, how do you explain these troubling trends?
BUSH: You know, I think there’s a lot of conditions that create that.
One is schools that have been inadequate and have failed. If you don’t get a good education, Juan, your self-esteem drops or you become someone who says that, “Society isn’t meant for me.”
So focusing early in education — focusing on education and excellence in early education is vital.
Secondly, I believe the breakdown of the family has affected people.
The way you solve a lot of the problems is — at least my solution has been to really empower those who could be most effective at helping people realize there are right and wrong in life, and that is the inner-city churches.
I believe in the faith— I’m a strong believer in the faith-based initiative because, you know, it is the local pastor or the local church member or the local community organizer who is much more effective about convincing somebody that they need help or convincing somebody that there’s a better way, that — rather than government trying to do that.
You know, I’m a— I also believe that one of the problems in the African-American community is there hasn’t been asset accumulation. In other words, asset hasn’t — assets have not been passed from one generation to the next.
I remember going to a Mississippi automobile plant and a lot of the workers there are African-Americans. And I asked them, did they have a 401(k). And most of the folks raised their hand.
I talked to some people afterwards. They said it’s the first time they’d ever had any assets — anybody in their family had accumulated assets that they could pass from one generation to the next.
And I believe that government policy that encourages ownership will help address some of the frustrations inside parts of our country and, therefore, proposed personal savings accounts as a part of Social Security to make sure that, you know, the poor person was capable of — had the ability to realize compounding rate of interest, which wealthier people do, but also had some assets.
And so, there’s a variety of reasons why the statistics you cited are real.
And the key is not to lose focus about it, not to forget. And so whether it be educational excellence or ownership or — ownership of homes or ownership of assets, this administration has pushed hard to empower the individual.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, the Supreme Court ruled this year that school districts in Louisville and Seattle can’t engage in even voluntary plans to achieve school integration.
Are you concerned that America’s schools are growing more segregated even as our population is more diverse and we’re part of a global economy?
BUSH: We don’t want to be segregated as a society. We want there to be, you know, kids growing up understanding each other as a result of, you know, mingling in the school halls, for example.
That’s why I’m a school choice advocate. And I am a public school choice advocate where schools are falling. And I believe in giving students scholarships to be able to go to whatever school their parents think they ought to go to; very similar to the scholarship program here in Washington, D.C.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, the Republican candidates for president have decided not to participate in a Hispanic issues debate. Several Republicans have also pulled out of a debate later this week scheduled to discuss issues of concern to the black community.
Jack Kemp has said that if the party — what’s going on with this party? Are they planning to have their meetings only in suburban country clubs? Newt Gingrich says the party’s writing off whole swathes of America. Is this a turnaway from minority outreach on the part of Republicans?
BUSH: No, I think— I think you’ll see the nominee of the party, whoever he is, will head into the African-American community with a positive message and, frankly, a good record, as a result of compassionate conservatism.
I mean, remember, we’re the —we’re the ones who confronted this education system that just shifts — shoves kids through the system without questioning. We’re the ones who insisted upon disaggregation of results, so that we could determine whether or not the African-American kid was learning at the same rate as the — as the white kid.
And as a result of this intense focus on results, there’s an achievement gap that’s beginning to narrow.
So we’ve got a good record. More black people own homes today than, you know, ever before. It’s— I think that’s an accurate statistic. I mean, and so — and black entrepreneurship is on the rise.
And so, we’ve got a good record and people shouldn’t shy away from going into the African-American community or the Latino community.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think people in the black and Latino community might say, “What happened in Katrina, where poor people, especially poor black people, abandoned in that situation?”
BUSH: Yeah. First of all, you know, our first response at all levels of government was to save people. And, you know, we had — we had helicopters flying, you know, night and day, pulling people off the roof.
And I made a comment down in New Orleans that those young kids reaching out of the helicopter didn’t ask whether you were black or white. They said, “You’re a fellow American; we’re here to save you.” Nearly 30,000 people were saved off the roofs.
The response at all levels of government was not adequate. And the fundamental question now is, how do we make sure that the federal response is, you now, is — is — is — is — is used properly by state and local authorities.
We’ve spent about $114 billion — or we’ve sent $114 billion into the pipeline. And there’s still a lot of unspent money. And there’s a lot of housing money that’s unspent.
And the fundamental question, Juan, is, who’s responsible?
I felt like the responsibility lay with us to write the check to help recovery. I believe it’s up to the local folks to make sure that the plans and the zoning laws are in place so that people actually can get that money and rebuild their lives.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, illegal immigrants report that they’re facing increased pressure from Homeland Security, as well as local authorities, after the failure of the national immigration reform bill.
Is immigration now a civil rights issue? And are you doing anything to try to get that reform back on track?
BUSH: As you know, I’m strong advocate for comprehensive reform. I — I never felt we could adequately enforce the border unless we had a — a temporary guest worker program that would take pressure off the border. And — you know, I never — and I knew we needed to address the issue that there’s 11 million people here, more or less, that are undocumented and we needed to do it in a way that was not amnesty, but also realistic enough not to kick them out of the — feel like we could kick them out of the country; it’s just not going to happen.
I was disappointed when the bill went down.
You know, I’m not sure there’s an appetite in Congress to take up the issue again. But I tell you where the pressure’s going to come: It’s going to come from employers who can’t find people to do the work that they need done. Maybe, you know, whether you’re picking peaches somewhere or apples somewhere, these growers or hotel workers simply are going to run out of people to do those jobs, particularly as this economy continues to expand.
And that pressure’s going to be to — starting to move into Congress. At some point in time, the Congress is going to have to address this issue again.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, Donovan McNabb, the Eagles quarterback, recently said that black quarterbacks are under more scrutiny than white quarterbacks. Do you think that’s true in all American life?
As you observe our country, do you see that blacks are under more intense scrutiny, subject to greater criticism . . .
BUSH: Yeah, it’s an interesting question. I heard him say that. And you know, it’s a — if he was under scrutiny yesterday, he was scrutinized positive, because he had a great name.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, this guy can play.
You know, it’s hard for me to tell, Juan. I’m sure there are cases where somebody feels like the criticism — the harsh criticism comes because expectations, you know, aren’t being met or because — you know, let me just say, like, for example, Condi Rice. You know, she gets criticized. I don’t think she would tell you that she’s been criticized more than any other secretary of state because of her race. Maybe she would. I don’t think so. I’ve never heard her complain about it.
But I’m sure there are cases where people — you know, I remember the day when people said there was never going to be a team with a black quarterback.
WILLIAMS: Right.
BUSH: And all of a sudden, people like McNabb, you know, are showing what a ridiculous statement that was.
And so, you know, I would hope that’s not the case. And I’m sure that a person like Donovan McNabb is an honest guy. He’s just sharing what he thinks and— which is OK.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, just to shift for a second, as we conclude, the Iranian president, Ahmadinejad, is coming to the U.N. But he’s also going to be at Columbia University.
BUSH: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Do you think that Columbia is right to welcome him and give him the opportunity to speak to the students?
BUSH: You know, I hope — I mean, this is — this is a place of high learning. And if the president thinks it’s a good idea to have the leader from Iran come and talk to the students as an educational experience, I guess it’s OK with me.
I’m a little — you know, the problem is Ahmadinejad uses these platforms to advance his agenda, which is— I suspect in this case is he doesn’t want to America to really know his true intention.
I’ll be curious to hear how he descries his views of the Holocaust.
I’ll be curious to hear how he answers the question, you know, that our intention is to destroy Israel.
And, you know, ours is a great country. I mean, when you really think about it, he’s the head of a state sponsor of terror, he’s — and yet an institution in our country gives him a chance to express his point of view, which really speaks to the freedoms of the country.
I’m not so sure I’d have offered the same invitation, but, nevertheless, it speaks volumes about really the greatness of America. We’re confident enough to let a person come and express his views. I just hope he tells everybody the truth.
WILLIAMS: Mr. President, there’s a new book, “Evangelical President,” quotes you as saying Hillary Clinton will defeat Barack Obama.
BUSH: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Is that what you think?
BUSH: You know, I probably shouldn’t have opined publicly about it, since I’m not that great a political prognosticator to begin with.
I believe she’s going to be a formidable person in the primaries because she’s got a national reach. And, you know, I’m not sure I can call the election since I’ve never participated in a Democrat primary in my life.
I do think we can defeat either candidate in the general election in November of 2008.
WILLIAMS: Final thing, Mr. President: You’ve said that you don’t want to comment about American knowledge of Israel’s attack on Syria. This week, do you have anything more that you can offer us, the Americans people, on this subject?
BUSH: I really don’t, Juan. Thank you.
WILLIAMS: Well, Mr. President, thank you for giving us this time.
BUSH: Yes, sir.
WILLIAMS: Appreciate it.
BUSH: Good job.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
